Helga D'Havé

This is the second part of the interview with Marc Bekoff, vegan and professor emeritus Ecology and Evolutionairy Biology from the University of Colorado.

INTERVIEW – PART I:

Most people attribute emotions to their companion animals, but not to chickens, pigs, cows or other non-companion animals. We treat the animals we eat different than our pets. Biologist Dr. Marc Bekoff is hopeful and makes a call for a more compassionate world where people treat one another and animals better.

What do you believe is the underlying reason for the separation most people create between themselves and non human-animals?

‘The reason that people have the dichotomy of humans and animals and always put humans above and separate from non-human animals is for some part religious motivated. Humans are the only animal created in the image of God and for long time it was thought that humans were the only rational animals, but we know that this is not true. The other reason is related to how animals have been used. People do horrible things to animals and they want to believe that these animals don’t feel or that their pain doesn’t count, but that is a distancing mechanism that enables them to do these horrible things.

People do attribute emotions to their dog or cat, but not to pigs or cows?

‘Yes. The animals we don’t see, we don’t attribute emotions to, or better said; those who we eat or who we wear. It is easy for people to separate that out. Young kids don’t know that a hamburger is a cow or that bacon is a pig. I always tell kids you’re not eating a bacon lettuce and tomato sandwich, you’re eating a Babe lettuce and tomato sandwich. A lot of kids get upset when they hear that, because they didn’t know the bacon was a pig. And yes, our companion animals have emotions, but people don’t like to give that same attribution to the animals who they eat, because they don’t see them, they only see a hamburger. However, it is changing: people come to me after a talk and say ‘I want to become vegetarian, I never thought of a cow as a who, but I did think of a dog as a who.’

Do you believe one day humans will treat animals as equal?

‘I’m very hopeful. I’m not a blind optimist, I know there are a lot of bad things happening, but I think we’re working to the point where animals will be treated as who they are. I would like to think ultimately maybe as equals.  Even if we don’t get to the point where animals are treated as equals, anything will count, because we’re so mean and cruel to them that any positive change really makes a difference. The choices we can make are really simple. It’s easy to choose a non-animal diet and non-animal clothes. It’s also easy to cut down from for example four hamburgers a week to two. So it’s small daily decisions that will make a difference. In my new book The animal manifesto I call it the compassion footprint. I’m asking people to expand their compassion. It has to be in the hearts of people, not in their heads, that this is the most ethical way to behave. If everyone does it the compassion footprint on earth will be huge and that can happen fast if half the world participates.’

Do you believe the human population will one day have turned vegetarian or even vegan?

‘I think there are a number of things here. First, there are too many people, so we have overpopulation and overconsumption. And we’re very self-centered and arrogant. If we want to have that under control we do have to make humane choices. I would love the world to be vegetarian or vegan, but it won’t be and I accept the fact. Also, poor people don’t have suitable nutritional alternatives. I always say when you go to a restaurant ask the source of the meat and when they can’t answer that question choose the vegetarian alternative. Also, free ranging chicken is better than slaughterhouse chicken. So it’s all about a slow progress to more ethical and compassionate choices. When people start doing that I think after a while we will see more love and compassion in the world. And that’s where my hope comes from. I have seen change so I’m optimistic.’

What should happen so that people are not only conscious of the moral and emotional lives of animals, but also change their attitude towards how we treat them?

‘We should always put the information out there and let people know what we know. People don’t like being told what to do, but they do like having information. Scientists are also responsible for putting out information. A lot of my university colleagues like to stay behind closed doors but I think it’s socially irresponsible to do that. I believe scientists have an obligation to go public.’

What do you believe is the biggest change the world needs right now?

‘I think that is more compassion among people and between people and animals and I think they feed one another. More compassion for animals feeds into more compassion for people. I like to call it an umbrella of compassion. Also we need less cultural barriers. Today the world needs more compassion, more empathy and more feeling for the pain of other people and animals.’

What has to happen to make this come true?

First people need to feel better about themselves. Happy people do better work. I don’t mean happy in a self indulging way like having ten cars, but I mean internally happy. A lot of people don’t have that capacity because they are poor or sick, but if you can do something to make the world a more compassionate place and you don’t, there’s something wrong, because you have to help those who can’t.’

What do you think the World will look like in hundred years?

‘I hope it will be a more compassionate world where people will treat one another and animals better. I hope people will stop exploiting each other and will stop using animals in horrific ways.’

Helga D’Havé

Marc Bekoff (1945) is a professor emeritus Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Colorado Boulder. He is specialized in the behavior and emotions of animals. In 2000 he was awared the Exemplar award by the Animal Behavior Society for his long time research on the behavior of animals. He is a member of the ethical committee of the Jane Goodall Institute. He wrote more than 200 scientific articles on animal behavior in wild animals and has written 22 books. Only recently Wild justice appeared and in the beginning of 2010 The Animal Manifesto will be for sale.